Erbie, thanks for sharing your story. You did the right thing. You put your children's welfare before your own. Now that they have come of age, you are now ready to move on with your life. My uncle did the same thing as you. He put his children first. When they were of age, he left his wife and moved on with his life. He was a better man for it. And he found happiness eventually. It seems that you are beginning to find true happiness too. Good for you!
Band Completely
JoinedPosts by Band Completely
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Cirencester Congregation UK: My story
by erbie indear all,.
i have been a member here for some years although mostly in the background.
many of you have bravely shared your own experiences and i am very grateful for that but i have never been open about my own experience.. nevertheless, i would be very grateful to those of you who would now take the time to read about my own personal journey from the jw religion and the circumstances that caused me to abandon that way of life and how i landed up where i am.
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exJW from Galway, Ireland
by Band Completely ini've been reading many articles on here and other forums relating to exjws for some time.
when my mother first got involved with the witnesses back in '77, my mother's mother and my father's mother, being the "good catholics that they were", gave my father "license" to do "whatever it takes" to stop her associating with these people.. due to "confirmation bias", (i.e.
"satan will do whatever he can to stop you associating with us"), this "persecution" only convinced her that the witnesses had "the truth".
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Band Completely
Crazyguy, they definitely need to have a mental health warning statement each time they knock on a person's door:
"Hi, we are two of Jehovah's Witnesses. We are offering our magazines today, half a Watchtower and half an Awake! You might have seen them before? Well, we must warn you that reading this and/or believing any of the nonsense in it can seriously affect your mental health. Please be advised. Would you like to take a copy?"
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exJW from Galway, Ireland
by Band Completely ini've been reading many articles on here and other forums relating to exjws for some time.
when my mother first got involved with the witnesses back in '77, my mother's mother and my father's mother, being the "good catholics that they were", gave my father "license" to do "whatever it takes" to stop her associating with these people.. due to "confirmation bias", (i.e.
"satan will do whatever he can to stop you associating with us"), this "persecution" only convinced her that the witnesses had "the truth".
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Band Completely
Thanks, stuckinarut2, I'll make sure to join in and support others. It will be my pleasure.
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exJW from Galway, Ireland
by Band Completely ini've been reading many articles on here and other forums relating to exjws for some time.
when my mother first got involved with the witnesses back in '77, my mother's mother and my father's mother, being the "good catholics that they were", gave my father "license" to do "whatever it takes" to stop her associating with these people.. due to "confirmation bias", (i.e.
"satan will do whatever he can to stop you associating with us"), this "persecution" only convinced her that the witnesses had "the truth".
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Band Completely
All, thanks so much for your kind comments. I really appreciate your responses.
Let me respond to you all:Simon, thank you.
ToesUp, Narcissism is definitely rampant among Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, it seems to have permeated into the exJW community too. I'm so happy to hear that you and your family are enjoying your life. You seem to have come out of the organization well grounded. It's great to see!
DesirousOfChange, Thank you too. I'd rather help others than just moan about things.
Giordano, you make some good, strong arguments about the blood issue. I think a conversation about this in a coffee shop would be a good place to continue this.
IrishDub, Níl aláinn Gaeilge agam, ach is maith liom é. If you are ever over this side of the country, maybe we'll meet up for a chat!
UnshackleTheChains, Thank you. It is the "pharasaical rules" that bother me the most. And it's a very different corporation today than it was when I was disfellowshipped in 2001. I'd hardly recognize it now.
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exJW from Galway, Ireland
by Band Completely ini've been reading many articles on here and other forums relating to exjws for some time.
when my mother first got involved with the witnesses back in '77, my mother's mother and my father's mother, being the "good catholics that they were", gave my father "license" to do "whatever it takes" to stop her associating with these people.. due to "confirmation bias", (i.e.
"satan will do whatever he can to stop you associating with us"), this "persecution" only convinced her that the witnesses had "the truth".
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Band Completely
Hello all,
I've been reading many articles on here and other forums relating to exJWs for some time. This is my very first post.
I'd like to tell you all a little bit about who I am, what I do and what I've been through.
The early years
When my mother first got involved with the Witnesses back in '77, my mother's mother and my father's mother, being the "good catholics that they were", gave my father "license" to do "whatever it takes" to stop her associating with these people.
Due to "confirmation bias", (i.e. "Satan will do whatever he can to stop you associating with us"), this "persecution" only convinced her that the Witnesses had "the truth". As a sort of compromise, my mother asked my father to bring along the local parish priest to the house. She would bring along two local elders. They could then have a biblical discussion to determine who had "the truth".
Unfortunately, the priest never turned up. Subsequently, my father didn't "persecute" my mother any further. She got baptised as a JW in 1979. In the following years, my mother would bring her children up in "the truth". My father never got involved.
I have four siblings. Of the five of us, only two got baptised - my younger sister and I.
Disfellowshippings
I'm not sure what age my sister was when she got baptised. I was baptised at 18. I was disfellowshipped when I was just 20 and I was reinstated at 21. I was disfellowshipped again at 24.
When I was disfellowshipped the first time, I had no issue with it. I had a non-JW girlfriend and I wanted to be with her. But, being quite young, having a feeble mind, pressure from my mother, and being heavily indoctrinated, I felt bad. So, I broke up with my girlfriend and worked to get reinstated.
In the time between my first disfellowshipping and my second, I suffered very badly from depression. I always felt that I was being "judged" by others because I had been "disfellowshipped". There were many who would not associate with me, or would limit their association with me because they felt I was "bad association". That said, there were many who loved me and had great respect for me. But, I could not handle the fact that some people didn't like me. I yearned for everyone to like me. That was a problem I had.
I didn't notice it at the time but I became dependent on alcohol. I drank quite a lot and quite regularly. One particular night, my JW sister and her husband had a party at their house. There was a lot of alcohol there. There was beer, vodka, whiskey, creme liquors etc. We all had a lot to drink. Unfortunately for myself, I drank Whiskey for the first time. I didn't know how Whiskey would react with my mind. But it had a perverse influence on me. I ended up committing fornication with another JW girl and I can remember very little of the interaction. The next morning I work up with an immense guilt. I spoke about the situation with my mother. She contacted the elders. They had a brief discussion with me. A judicial committee was set up to deal with the situation.
I was asked a lot of questions in that judicial meeting. I was very confused by the line of questioning. Most of the questions were extremely invasive. I didn't feel comfortable answering them but I did. I told them all that I remembered. I could sense by the line of questioning that they didn't believe me on some issues. I think they believed that I knew more than what I was telling. But the truth was, I told them all I knew about the incident.
I prayed almost constantly to Jehovah for forgiveness. I cried a lot over the course of the week or so that these "investigations" were ongoing.
There was two judicial meetings set up with me. The first one was to get my side of the story. The second one was to clarify my perspective of events. You see, the JW girl was from a neighboring congregation. She had her own judicial meeting with her elders. Both elder bodies then had to compare notes.
I didn't know it at the time, but the events as she saw them, and the events as I saw them, were not consistent.
After the second judicial meeting, the elders determined that I was not repentant and that they were going to disfellowship me. They said I had a week to appeal the decision before they made their announcement.
I appealed.
There were four elders in the original committee. Three additional elders from a congregation outside my circuit now got involved. They briefly questioned me on the events as I saw them. They said that they felt that I should be disfellowshipped.
I cried a lot over the course of the two weeks that these events took place. And I prayed. I prayed a lot. But no God was listening. Or at least, he didn't believe either that I was repentant.
My brother-in-law said that I should appeal to the branch. I told him that I was mentally and emotionally drained. I was suffering very bad from depression at the time and I just didn't not have the strength to fight the decision.
9-11
The elders held off making the announcement for a number of weeks. I have been told since that some of those elders (who were not link appointed at the time) felt that it was one of the most difficult decisions they ever came to.
On September 11, 2001, two planes crashed into the World Trade Center. My judicial meetings took place just over a week after these events. Planes were grounded. People didn't want to fly. Folks were terrified. Airlines were struggling to fill seats.
A local airline was offering seats for just 1c. I booked a flight to Paris, France for myself and my best friend. We went to Paris in early October. We stayed with a JW friend of mine. We had a fantastic time exploring this beautiful city. He was completely unaware that I was soon to be disfellowshipped. And I never told him. I just wanted to have a good time with a good friend in a great city.
And we had that.
I was disfellowshipped November 1, 2001.
2002 through to 2012
I never accepted the decision. And to this day, I still do not accept the decision that was made. I apologized for the wrong I committed on September 9, 2001. I cannot apologize any further. I was repentant. I cannot be any more repentant. I made that clear to my mother and my sister.
My relationship with my sister was okay between 2002 and 2012. Most of the time, she spoke with me and sometimes she wouldn't. My mother wanted me to live at home as long as was possible because she said as soon as I move out, she would have to shun me.
After my mother's older brother and mother passed away, in 2004 and 2006 respectively, she had a mental breakdown. She was in and out of hospital getting treatment for severe depression. Up until that point, she was a very strong woman. She attempted to commit suicide twice. And each time, I was able to get to her in time and ensure she got to hospital and get the needed treatment.
I lived at home until 2007. After I moved out, my mother began to shun me and it was having an adverse effect on her mental health. She felt she had to shun me but it meant that she was spending almost all of her time in hospital getting "help". The irony is that she was not telling her therapists about the requirement to shun her own son. She was keeping that piece of information from them so she wasn't dealing with her issues correctly.
I took matters into my own hands. I arranged a meeting with the elders and I told them that for the sake of my mother's mental stability, they must let her have some association with me, even if it is limited association. So they determined that I could visit her once every 8 weeks. I'm not sure where that time-frame came from. You can be sure it was based on some "advice" from the branch.
So, from 2008 to 2012, I was allowed visit my mother. In that period, she was able to improve her mental state and came to have a better quality of life.
Shunned before the Wedding
In April 15 2012 edition of The Watchtower, there was an article written about how family should deal with disfellowshipped members. It's on page 16 & 17. They should not have any contact with them so that they can be encouraged to return to Jehovah and have his blessing. In other words, shunning should be used to coerce former members to return to the religion.
I had legally married my wife in December 2011. I was arranging to have a more informal marriage celebration for July 2012. It was going to be on a beach up at the Baltic Sea. I had invited all my family, including my mother and sister.
In June of 2012, my mother asked if she could call out and visit me. I agreed. She came out and she had a chat with me for an hour. She told me that she would never speak to me again unless I returned to the Jehovah's Witnesses. I said that she is entitled to her religious beliefs but that she knows why I have not returned.
She never came to the wedding. Neither did any other family member (JW or nonJW). Despite the lack of family at the wedding, there was a lot of my good friends there and we had a wonderful time. It was my family's loss. Not mine.
My Father's Passing
On March 3, 2015, my father passed away. He and my mother had been divorced for almost 10 years prior and neither spoke to each other in that time. Yet, when he was on his death bed, he was glad to have her there. It's a moment I'll never forget.
In the few days that we were in the hospital, the conversation was quite strained. 3 years had already passed in which I had no communication with my mother, my sister or her children. Her children have no idea who I am. Or if they do, I'd suspect that it's not a positive view.
My mother wanted to hug me. I said, "No mam, I can't let you do that." I wanted to hug her but I knew that if I hugged her, that it would only be temporary because as soon as my dad was put down a hole in the ground, things would go back to the way they were.
When the nurse called to say he was dead, I was the first at his bedside. It was the first time that I ever experienced genuine grief and loss. As Jehovah's Witness, I never grieved or mourned anyone because I had "the hope". But I broke down and wailed. My JW brother-in-law attempted to put his arm around me.
I shivered. Now I was having mixed emotions: On the one hand I'm grieving and on the other, I have an active shunner trying to "console" me. I just turned and left the room to grieve in peace.
I went to a private room and sat down. I was unaware that my brother-in-law was following. My non-JW brother stopped him and said, "Dan! Leave him be. Do not go in there." But Dan ignored my brother. He went in, sat beside me and put his arm around me again.
That was it. I lost the plot. I won't say what I said to him but it was not for sensitive ears. In fact, what I said to him would shock even Gordon Ramsey! But my dad had just died and I didn't give a rat's arse f***!
Learning the Truth about the Truth
Let me step back a year. In February 2014, I got a text message from two elders from the local congregation in the town I now live in. They said they heard that I lived in the area and wondered if they could call by to give me some encouragement.
I said that I'd be delighted to meet them. They called over in early March about a week before the Memorial. We spoke for 75 minutes and I explained all the issues I had with my congregation and why I could not go back until certain issues were resolved. They promised that they would look into it and get back to me. In the meantime, they asked if I would attend the memorial with them. And maybe the special talk. I said that I'd come to the memorial.
I went to the memorial and sat beside one of the elders. I found the experience quite alright except for one instance. I had asked the elder who a particular person was because I recognized him. He was visibly uncomfortable answering my question as if I was not allowed to ask questions. That bothered me. And for that simple reason, I didn't bother going to the special talk the following week.
The next week, my non-JW brother called out and asked if I had ever researched the history of the organization. I said that I have the Watchtower Library and the Proclaimers book. I know the history quite well. He said, did I ever research it from external sources. I dismissed it as "apostate lies". They distort things to show the organization in a bad light.
I said that I have an issue just with the elders in my congregation, not with the organization. I have nothing bad to say about the organization. Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth, it's just that I have been wronged badly by certain individuals.
He said, "Fair enough. But if you did research from external sources, wouldn't you know if they were lies or not. Why don't you just do a google search on "Beth-Sarim" and see what that is all about. If it's lies, you'll know. But maybe you'll find the history of "Beth-Sarim" quite fascinating."
So, I googled "Beth-Sarim". I had just taken the red pill from my brother.
That google search opened a can of worms for me. From April 2014 to October 2014, I learned the truth about the truth.
Meeting the Elders
In October 2014, armed with so much "truth", I went to the Kingdom Hall just around the corner from my house. It had just ended. I came to the door and the elder who I sat beside at the Memorial was at the door. Once he saw me, his eyes nearly fell out of his head. He opened the door feebly and said that he was no longer an elder.
I said, "That's quite alright Philip. Maybe I could speak with Malcolm."
Malcolm came out and closed the door behind him. I made it clear to Malcolm that I was not happy that he had not fulfilled a single promise he made to me when he called to my house. I hadn't heard from him since the time I was at the memorial. I said, "It seems to me that your only goal was to get me to the memorial at any cost. You made empty promises just so you could fill the seats. In your mind, your job was done. In my mind, I was waiting eagerly to see if the issues I have had for the last 13 years could be resolved."
I was livid. Another elder came out. Some big fat dude who obviously was having an affair with food behind his wife's back. He stood away for a time. I knew he was there as "the second witness". So, I turned around to allow him to join in the conversation. Now, I was explaining my issues with both these men. This guy was looking at me with such disdain that I knew he just saw me as some sort of apostate. I can't remember what I said to these guys but whatever I said was strongly worded arguments that these men couldn't find words in retort. They just kept their mouths shut and let me speak.
When I eventually walked away, one of the whistled in relief. I don't think they ever had to deal with someone like me before. I know what you - as the reader of what I am writing - are thinking. Yep, they just saw me as a hate-filled apostate. And maybe they did. But I needed to speak my mind. It was the first time that I did and it felt good. It's good to release all the pent-up rage one has. And it's not been the last time either.
Data Protection
Over the next year I discovered a lot of the secret manuals and letters that the watchtower issues to elders. I discovered what procedures were invoked to disfellowship me. I discovered how personal data was handled and archived. I discovered why it didn't matter how much I prayed back in 2001, the procedures dictated how events were to be handled. No amount of prayer would change that.
In November 2015, I made a formal data access request from my local congregation. I wanted to know why and for what reason(s) I was disfellowshipped. They asked that I sent on €6.35 to cover costs and proof of identification. I did that.
In December 2015, they sent me a S-77 form with my personal details and 2 scriptures that were used as the reasons for my disfellowshipping. Up until that point, I thought that I was disfellowshipped for one reason only. It turns out that I was disfellowshipped for two reasons.
I was not happy that they had this data about me. So, I wrote to them again requesting that they delete every last piece of evidence they have on me. Responded and said that they have complied with the law.
I thought, the only way we can resolve this is if I talk to them in person. In January 2016, I called to the kingdom hall and I spoke to the "Data Controller". I said that I understand that they have a S-77 form with my details and that I want that deleted. I said that I also know that per a 2010 BOE letter, they also have a "specialized shepherding list" and that my name is on that. I want to be removed from that list also.
He confirmed the existence of the "Specialized Shepherding List". I said, that it would be in his best interests if they delete everything with regard to me. He said, he would see what he could do.
I received another letter in February 2015 saying that they have done all that they are legally required to do. I didn't give a shit about what they are "legally required to do." I have a "moral right" for this data to be deleted. I had made it clear that I no longer want to be a Jehovah's Witness and on that basis they have no need to have any data relating to me personally.
About 4 or 5 letters had been going back and forth with no sign of them submitting to my request.
Helping those who need help
They have insinuated that I'm legally entitled to bring them to court if I so wish. But that is a costly endeavor on my part and I know how they operate in court. So, I have not and I currently have no intention of doing so. Instead, I've taken a very different route.
I help people who need help.
For example, I've helped Stephanie Fessler. She's never met me and she has no idea who I am but I've done things to ensure that she got the evidence she needed to secure a win in court.
I helped an exJW in Ireland secure full custody of her 6yo child from her emotionally abusive JW ex-Husband who kept telling the child that his mother was going to be killed by Jehovah at Armageddon.
There are many other areas that I've been working in as an activist, helping people. Some of these people know I'm helping them and others have no idea.
I don't do this for glory. I do this for justice.
Doctrine vs Procedure
There is not much wrong with Jehovah's Witnesses doctrine. The doctrine is quite sound for the most part, except for one harmful doctrine.
Okay, "Jehovah" is not God's name. Jehovah's Witnesses as members are quite dogmatic that it is, but their literature is not. Anyone who is a keen researcher can show them clearly how ambiguous their literature is on this point. But big deal. Whether or not Jehovah is God's name won't hurt a fly. It might just hurt a JW's ego when you show them from their own literature that it's not God's name.
The Blood issue. The bible says clearly that we must abstain from blood. If Jehovah's Witnesses believe that taking blood in any form is wrong, that is fine. That's doctrinally okay. What is not okay, is their procedural process. A JW may believe that taking blood is morally wrong, but if they take a blood transfusion because they want to live, they should be entitled to make that decision, even if they believe it to be morally wrong, but not have repercussions for doing so. Unfortunately, the procedural process - not doctrine - requires that elders "disassociate" them. This is wrong. This is an act of aggression towards someone who only wanted to do what any reasoning human does: preserve their own life.
Harmful Doctrine
Shunning is not biblical. Shunning is an act of isolation. Isolation is a form of torture. Torture is in contravention to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. There is no scripture in the bible that says to socially isolate anyone. There are scriptures in the bible that say not to greet someone who is not following the teachings of "Christ" (2 John 9, 10) but Jehovah's Witnesses will use this one to justify isolating family and friends. It's wrong and it's extremely harmful.
Such doctrine has been recognized by the Russian Federation as extremist. It is one of the reasons Jehovah's Witnesses are banned.
There is so much more I could say, but I don't have time. This is a long essay.
Pleased to meet you all!
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